wtka roundtable
podcasts
2025 recruiting
jadon blair
shamari earls
SethJune 20th, 2024 at 10:34 AM
Things Discussed:
- Storytime with Craig Ross: Transactional vs Transformational.
- Recruiting: Class of 2025 is like Class of 2023, which was a pair of three-stars and Raylen Wilson out the door at this point in the cycle.
- Brady Hart on Ohio State: "Not everyone's got the same culture as Michigan." Got the JJ to build a class around. Sam points out that's been their best classes (Henson, etc.)
- Sam: Michigan had four QBs they were heavy on, #1 was probably going to Oklahoma no matter what, and they got Hart on campus early in case he wanted to commit before the other two.
- Other guys. RB Jasper Parker has offers from everybody except LSU; do they think they can come back and get him? Has those great feet (like Karan) and is a good receiver.
- Jordon Davison: OSU/Michigan battle despite OSU having 2 backs already.
- Michigan really wants: S JaDon Blair, might be a ND lean (really likes Marcus Freeman, being next Kyle Hamilton but better, has known their staff longer than Morgan). But interesting thing from Blair re: Michigan: "They are lagging behind no-one on NIL."
- Their #1 overall target is probably CB Shamari Earls, who's a Will Johnson-caliber dude. Other schools did a great job negative recruiting against Steve Clinkscale. Gonna be a fight with Georgia though. Seth: If you want to prove to me that Michigan's NIL is lagging behind nobody, win a battle with Georgia. Noted: Will Johnson is probably one of the best-paid players in the country. But UGA is going to pay a lot up-front. At least we'll know before the season it seems. If Michigan wins it's because they need a CB immediately in 2025.
- Pac12 teams in the Big Ten: They're already Big Ten teams. They've got Jestin Jacobs at middle linebacker: that's a Big Ten team. A purple team with Michigan's former kick returner at slot receiver: that's a Big Ten team. USC's the weirdo, but as far as QB situations in the Big Ten go, a guy who played as much as Aidan Chiles did last year after being in Lincoln Riley's system for 4 years is pretty dang good.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Part 2 is here. Watch the video here:
The Usual Links:
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
Panic in the immediate aftermath of a national championship is the sign of a diseased mind.
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EastCoast Esq.
June 20th, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^
According to On3's rankings, Will Johnson is ranked #39 in NIL valuation in college football. He's ranked #3 among CBs.
I don't know what "NIL valuation" means, but that's what I found.
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GoBlue1530
June 20th, 2024 at 11:56 AM ^
That is On3's atrociously misleading model that basically uses social media followers to determine value.
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Blinkin
June 20th, 2024 at 1:40 PM ^
So they're pretending that NIL is about advertising and not just "the bag" under a different name.
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Quailman
June 20th, 2024 at 12:18 PM ^
It's a bunch of bs that no one should pay attention to
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Toby Flenderson
June 20th, 2024 at 11:13 AM ^
Craig Ross being a long talker
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1VaBlue1
June 20th, 2024 at 12:22 PM ^
I'm pretty convinced that Craig is there largely to fill time with words.
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PopeLando
June 20th, 2024 at 11:23 AM ^
I’m struggling to see how you can negatively recruit Clinkscale - is he a jerk?
From 2021 through 2023, our secondary was pretty damn good. Will Johnson will be the first CB off the board next year. He would have been the first CB off the board this year. We’ve limited multiple first round WRs in critical games.
So what gives?
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Toby Flenderson
June 20th, 2024 at 11:41 AM ^
Clinkscale was considered to be quite a hardass from what I recall.
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Quailman
June 20th, 2024 at 12:19 PM ^
That he was gonna bolt for the NFL
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GhostofRichRod
June 20th, 2024 at 2:19 PM ^
Not clear whether they meant the coach or the program. Not hard to “negative recruit” limited “NIL.”
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AuJusBlue
June 20th, 2024 at 11:37 AM ^
A secondary class of Winston/Blair/Earls (should it happen) looks a lot like the '22 Johnson/Sabb/Berry group, and any team facing OSU/Oregon/USC needs as many secondary dudes as it can get...
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dcmaizeandblue
June 20th, 2024 at 11:57 AM ^
I need Seth to point to the Michigan fans who are undervaluing what JJ did last year because I haven’t seen them.
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PopeLando
June 20th, 2024 at 12:07 PM ^
Probably some cohort of people who see depressed passing TD totals* and conclude that it means the QB was superfluous. We call these people “mistaken” lol
*JJ’s passing production in 2023 was as high as a Harbaughffense ever achieves - there is a sickening consistency throughout his career that tops out at…Shea Patterson. Except for that one magical year of Andrew Luck, which is indeed an exception, unfortunately. That does NOT mean the QBs were bad or that McCarthy = Patterson. It means 1) JJ was injured for half the year and the coaches just sorta shut down the passing game, and 2) Harbaugh will turn everything into Harbaugh. JJ was critical to our championship, and anyone who thinks otherwise can safely be ignored. There’s plenty of people who can safely be ignored on this topic.
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GhostofRichRod
June 20th, 2024 at 1:59 PM ^
A lot of whining about the supposed "Harbaughffense" that once again makes zero sense. Like Seth said, JJ's passing numbers this past season were terrific until garbage time--and indeed, JJ's all-game "rate" stats were excellent in any event. Give Jim a borderline five-star QB recruit like Luck or JJ, and the result is apt to be a dominant college offense, even without the luxury of bought-and-paid for high-end tackle and wide receiver recruits. Those are the actual historical facts. Sure, you won't get those same results with Top 100 overall busts like Peters or McAffrey, or a transfer guy like Shea who had been beaten out already as the starter at his first school. But that sort of stuff can happen to any college coach. Some Top 100 overall QB recruits are destined to bust. Even some Top 10 overall QB recruits are destined to bust. You just can't necessarily discern that in advance, and the only sure "remedy" is to have the recruiting capital (often very literal) to stack premier QB prospects, class after class. Harbaugh's Michigan never had that sort of capital, alas, and it wasn't on Jim.
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PopeLando
June 20th, 2024 at 3:44 PM ^
I'm having some trouble parsing this response. You seem to be making four or five different arguments, only one of which addresses what I was talking about.
So here it goes. I disagree that Harbaugh has ever had a "dominant" offense. Except 2010 Stanford. 2023 was the closest he got at Michigan, and it was still worse than the one magical year of Andrew Luck. I also think that 2023 COULD have exceeded 2010 Stanford had McCarthy been healthy all year, or if the coaches had been inclined to plan a functional passing game while JJ was injured. If I could slightly modify what Seth said, I'd say "JJ's numbers were terrific until garbage time early in the season, and then depressed due to injury in the second half of the season, and then once again terrific late in the season, but only in high-leverage situations."
Btw, I did a deep dive on this a short while back, in which I made it clear that I'm not dissing McCarthy (best QB Michigan's had in a generation):
I started calling it the “Patterson Plateau” last year to really bring home the point that the Harbaughffense passing game tops out at what Shea Patterson was able to accomplish. The McCarthy-era passing game was approximately as productive as the Patterson-era passing game, and if you struggle to accept that…it’s probably around the number of wins that those seasons produced.
It’s also about the eye test: both the eyes and the advanced stats show McCarthy a clear step above Patterson, so I want to make it absolutely clear that I’m NOT saying that McCarthy = Patterson. I’m saying that Harbaugh = Harbaugh, and that Harbaugh will find a way to turn everything into Harbaugh.
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Hanlon's Razor
June 20th, 2024 at 12:20 PM ^
With all due respect to Seth...
Seth: If you want to prove to me that Michigan's NIL is lagging behind nobody, win a battle with Georgia.
...impressing the recruits is what really matters, and there is growing evidence that M's NIL might be legit. I'm not at all surprised that Michigan isn't shining a spotlight on it publicly, as being a for-profit institution is not the image they want to portray.
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Mr Miggle
June 20th, 2024 at 12:20 PM ^
No mention of Shane Morris, but he's the QB that I think of for working hardest to recruit the class around him.
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Hotel Putingrad
June 20th, 2024 at 12:27 PM ^
I'm all for culture, but why not a half up front, half upon exiting the program model? Or even better, a deferred payment schedule? There has to be a way to outbid the SEC, Oregon, and OSU with sound financial planning.
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maquih
June 20th, 2024 at 12:54 PM ^
Because we won the national championship with this model? So why would we as fans question the model??
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GoBlue1530
June 20th, 2024 at 2:56 PM ^
Doesn't this leave you with the same issue of the perceived problem you want to fix though? If you don't offer the same up front number they aren't going to come? Unless you're saying pay the going rate up front and then even more after they exit the program?
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the_dude
June 20th, 2024 at 12:37 PM ^
I've got a space cleared out on the entertainment center for the Victors book, glad to hear you are going above and beyond your already very high standard on this endeavor.
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Wolverine 73
June 20th, 2024 at 1:17 PM ^
That golf story was Craig’s version of the moth joke, only without any payoff at the end.
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Quailman
June 20th, 2024 at 1:37 PM ^
Is there ever a payoff of Craig?
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Don
June 20th, 2024 at 1:54 PM ^
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GhostofRichRod
June 20th, 2024 at 2:12 PM ^
Sure—he’s smart, perceptive, interesting, and self-effacing. His commentary adds some color and humor, even though he doesn’t know ball with the granularity of Seth or Brian. And Craig knows the “politics” of Michigan football and the legal constraints of interest (on the latter, duh) at least as well as Seth or Brian. Not sure why some here want to sh*t-talk him. I’m sure he’s on these podcasts to add a perceptive “ordinary fan” type perspective, rather than another expert on sabermetrics or play breakdowns.
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Preacher Mike
June 20th, 2024 at 3:25 PM ^
Craig cannot be allowed any more interminable, meandering, pointless analogies.
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